Profile Mr Jack Ho is of Chinese descent and was born on 18 December 1956. He is a Chief Financial Officer. His family used to own a transportation company, Quick Baggage Transport, which was located at the Tanjong Pagar station. The business was passed down from his parents to his brothers and then to him. It was mainly a freight forwarding business that was involved in the transport of goods from the port area to the trains for delivery to the free trade zones in Malaysia. He recounts his time spent at the Tanjong Pagar station between the late 1960s and early 1990s. He recalls playing with his siblings in the station and helping out in the family business. He talks about the various stalls found at the station (notably the Bombay Restaurant), many of which were family-run businesses. He describes how the atmosphere of the station and the way things were run were very Malaysian. He mentions the queues at the station during the Chinese New Year period. He recounts walking on the tracks between his home and the station. He talks about the abolishment of the Rent Control Act and how it affected tenants in the station. He compares the railway station before and after the renovation, mentions briefly about the station’s hotel and describes the station’s toilet cubicles in detail. He also discusses the corruption that businesses at the station had to deal with. He ends by sharing his views on developing the Tanjong Pagar station and railway corridor. * Some parts of this interview transcript have been lightly edited to improve on its clarity. INTERVIEWER: Hi, good morning Jack. So we are doing this interview for the Singapore Memory Project and today we are here to talk about the Tanjong Pagar station. Maybe you can just give us a little background of yourself like how are you related to the train station. JACK: Okay, related for many years, in fact, probably for as long as I have lived, you know which is 57 now. And my dad used to run a business at the railway station and then he passed away when I was 3 years old about turning 4, and ever since then my mum took over the business so as kids, we were always brought to the railway station. Along the way, the business passed from brother to brother, from my mum to my brothers, and finally landed with me also for about 10 years. So ya, so ya, many years there. INTERVIEWER: Wow, so it’s really an integral part of your family life. JACK: I would say so, ya. INTERVIEWER: So you ran the business for 10 years as well? JACK: Yes, before we finally sold the business. INTERVIEWER: When was that when you finally had that, when you are not related anymore? JACK: Sorry? INTERVIEWER: When did that happen when you sold the business? JACK: Wow, about 16 years ago. INTERVIEWER: Ya, it’s quite a while ago, about 16 years ago. JACK: I would, what you call, no, no, sorry, it’s more than that. That’s definitely wrong. Probably about 25 years ago. INTERVIEWER: Wow, so it’s been a while. JACK: Ya, because after that I did 10 years of, almost 10 years of real estate, running my business in real estate before I came to join this organisation for 16 years. So it’s 16 plus about, you know, eight, nine years, you know. Prior to that, it was running the business for 10 years. INTERVIEWER: That was quite a while ago. That would have been the ’90s? JACK: Ya, even earlier actually. Ya, I think if I’m not wrong I started joining, I joined the business there in ’81. So if I did the business there for about 10 years, that would be until about ’91. And then, but I started real estate in maybe about ’89, 2 years before I gave up and sold the business so there was an overlap. Something like this. ’81 to ’91, I was actually running the business there. INTERVIEWER: Okay, maybe Jack you can tell us a little bit of like, maybe give us a bit more details of what it was like growing up at the train station. Where did you live and what was life like when you were a kid growing up around there? JACK: Initially, we weren’t that much involved although we were obviously brought to the, you know, the place of work and you know, here and there. But my earlier recollections was more when we moved from Pasir Panjang to Bukit Merah and that used to have a very weird road name, which is, doesn’t exist anymore, it was Gagak Selari Barat, which is now Jalan Bukit Merah. It has just changed to Block 107 Jalan Bukit Merah. Previously it was Block 107 Gagak Selari Barat and it was near the railway track where we walk, you know, past a few blocks and then from the railway track we actually walk all the way to the railway station, you know. I can’t remember how long it took but that was what it was for us when I was about 12 years old [when] we moved to Bukit Merah and there was a lot of memories of having to walk from home to office, office to home, after school made our way to the office. Because my mum had to take care of nine children by herself plus her business, you know. So, after school we had to report to the railway station so to speak, you know, because that’s where my mum actually even had a kitchen at the office to cook our lunch, you know, and then we had our meals, do our homework, whatever and then if we need to go back earlier then we walk the railway track home. INTERVIEWER: So what kind of business was it? JACK: It was a transport business. It was a, you call it a freight forwarding business kind of a thing but then it was more specialising in local delivery, shipping, container hauling and during my mum’s time, my older brother’s time, we were doing a lot of transport by rail. Because then, a lot of goods were actually shipped from Singapore by rail, you know, to KL, to Penang, you know, to their Free Trade Zones. INTERVIEWER: Right, right. So your mum had to run the business and then take care of all of you, that’s why you guys have to report to the office. JACK: That’s right, yes. INTERVIEWER: So it was a daily event after school? JACK: Ya, it was almost a daily event. INTERVIEWER: Why would you guys do at the office or at the railway station? JACK: Nothing much. You know, I mean as a kid, we always thought that that was Malaysian land. I mean it was Malaysian land, yes we know, it belongs to the Malaysian Government, but we always thought that coming into railway station means you go into Malaysia. You know, the feeling was like that, you know, it was like a different world in a certain sense and then as a kid you just spend your time catching houseflies, you know, doing whatever, you know, and maybe doing some homework, running around the platform, going down to the railway track where the train arrives and putting a 1 cent coin on the track, you know, so that when the train goes and comes back you see how it change the shape of the coin, you know that kind of a thing. That’s actually illegal. So you might not want to put that in. INTERVIEWER: That’s really interesting. I don’t think a lot of children had that kind of experience. JACK: Ya, it was like that and every time the train arrives it has that noisy horn that it will sound, you know, very very loud, you know, horn to signify its approach because that is really right at the dead end where train arrive, the engine arrive with the passenger train behind and then it will unhook, the engine will unhook itself, you know, forward and then has to make a, you know, a reverse back to another track to go to the other side. So we see that all the time you know. In fact to the point where when I started working there that 10 years, I realised that I did not hear the sound of the train anymore. You know, it was there but you just don’t hear it because it’s part of your life there already, you know. It’s actually very very loud. The horn of the train, whatever you call it, you know, it is extremely loud. But after being there for this many years, you know, train comes in and go and you just don’t hear it anymore. INTERVIEWER: That must be a very familiar noise. JACK: Ya, it becomes so familiar that it doesn’t even do anything to you. INTERVIEWER: So you grew up there pretty much all the way through primary school, secondary school. I mean, how did life change for you or for, what was the difference? JACK: For me, it was more of secondary. I’m the youngest of the family and when we moved to Bukit Merah I was 12 years old. I was in Primary 6 already and so it was more secondary school days that we spent a lot of time there. That was where we grew up, where we learnt to ride bicycle, you know, where we helped out with working in the company as we grew older, carrying things here and there or learning to drive a forklift, you know that kind of a thing. INTERVIEWER: So part of work would involve, you have to unload and use the forklift? JACK: Ya. INTERVIEWER: So that obviously you see a lot more of the train station than other people would. JACK: Definitely. INTERVIEWER: I mean, what was life around the train station like? JACK: I don’t know. As I said, it’s like almost going into another world. Inside, the way things are run is kind of a bit slow paced and very relaxed. There is the Hainanese coffee shop across the other side of the track, you know, it’s like a cafeteria, you know. It used to be a real Hainanese coffee shop where they sell bread and toast and coffee and maybe some zi char [restaurant-style Chinese dishes] stuff, you know. That was like our source for somebody who wants to buy an extra breakfast, bread or whatever kind of thing but most of the time, my mum would cook when we were young but when my mum stopped running the business and handed it to, you know, my older brothers, the cooking stopped also at the same time. So it means we had to eat either at the cafeteria or at the other food centres around it. So we had a small car park that is just outside railway station and that was where the food hawker centre is also. It was not a car park then, it was a hawker centre, you know, and so we had all kinds of food there, you know, Indian food and all that. In fact, there’s this Indian restaurant, Bombay Restaurant, I don’t know, you probably may have interviewed one of them too. The Bombay guys have been there for so many years. They were outside in a stall and then they finally negotiated a space in railway station itself and they have been inside also for many many years. And things like the bookshop or the stationery, I would say it’s a bookshop. What do you call it, a mama shop [Indian provision shop], but you know, it is where you walk past, once you passed the immigration, the customs, you leave the platform, you have to pass this newspaper, sweets, magazine Indian store, you know, and the money changer also, you know, so that family has been there also for as long as my family has been around. So we saw that, you know, we were kids together, we grew up and took over the business, took over the business and we still, you know, that kind of a thing, money changing business and the store. So it is a familiar sight, you know, for us, you know. That’s where we buy our newspaper, that’s where we, you know ... INTERVIEWER: And was that like the norm in that area where you would really see people through the generations there? JACK: I would say yes because the people who were older than us, some of them were more like my dad, my mum, you know, and better than I knew, you know. INTERVIEWER: And, I mean, were there quite a few businesses where you see each other grow up? JACK: Yes, there was another company beside us, Malaysia Transportation. Our company was Quick Baggage Transport and it was the company beside us, Malaysian Transportation and they were doing the same business as we were, doing a lot of forwarding by rail into Malaysia. So in a sense we were competitors, but yet at the same time the families grew up, so it was like friendly competition thing. INTERVIEWER: Right. And did you guys all play together? JACK: Not that I can remember, you know. There wasn’t a lot of freedom for us as kids in a sense, you know, because though we get a little bit of chance here and there but generally we are not as free as you think like oh, we spend our whole day there running all over the place. We get the chance to do that but generally my mum has been quite strict about how we spend our time because she got her hands full trying to run the business and then to run, take care of so many children at the same time, so most of the time it was, you know, you kind of be at a place where you are seen, you know. INTERVIEWER: Then wouldn’t it be so interesting like all your siblings, I mean, I assume that because you are the youngest right? Some of them would probably not have been in office all the time. JACK: Ya, the older ones, as we grew up, would start work also in other places, in this and that, and we still have the habit of, sometimes depending on where they work or after work they will make their way to the railway station, you know, and then sometimes they will walk, all walk home together by the railway track, you know, that kind of a thing. But ya it’s true, as we go along, you grow older into secondary school then you have your ECAs [Extra Curricular Activities] after that, you know and so you have more programmes and less, and less and less time but that was what it was there. That place is really Malaysian-run, you know, because we deal with the Malaysian customs, we deal with the, you know, when we are forwarding things there, it has to clear the Malaysian customs before it goes into the wagon, you know. And then the wagon is closed and sealed then they deliver it all the way to say, Bandar Seri Trade Zone or whatever. INTERVIEWER: Right. That’s interesting. I was just very curious when you talk about how when you enter into the railway station, the entire area, it’s a different world. You mentioned, obviously one thing is that everything kind of slows down a little bit. JACK: Ya because people think and I think when I was young we all, somehow or rather, everyone had that conception that it, because you know you take the train from Malaysia into Singapore, and the moment you clear the customs and all that, it is like you are still in Malaysia until you stepped out of the railway station and then you are in Singapore. I didn’t have the concept, when I was young, of yes this is in Singapore, the land is owned by Malaysian Government or the KTM but it does not mean that this is part of Malaysia. We always had that concept that this was part of Malaysia, you know. I don’t know if you understand what I’m saying, you know. You know, if I go into a building that is owned by the Malaysian Government, I would not think I’m in Malaysia. I know that I’m in Singapore in a building owned by Malaysian Government but in Tanjong Pagar Railway Station, you think you are in Malaysia, you know. INTERVIEWER: Was there a something specific that maybe you connect? JACK: I think because of the way the immigrations and the customs were and where they actually clear your goods and stamp your passports and everything, it’s like welcome to Singapore, you know, and it’s like at the railway station, when you come out and then you pass the immigration and chop and then that’s where you clear into Singapore and before that it’s Malaysia, you know that kind of thing, you know. So, that feeling is that you are in Malaysia because the whole place is run basically by KTM people and in the past, they have like this Head of Customs, you know, that is actually living in Singapore, very honoured position in a sense, you know, and they would deal everything to do with the land there, whether it is maintenance of it, whether it is how you run the immigration, how you run the custom services and everything else and of course the ticketing agency, the counters outside where people go and buy tickets to take the train, you know. So it was like that, you know. It was that kind of things where when I was there, when I was working there, I remembered when they said announce that they are going to do a few million dollar renovation, this whole place going to look real new and everything and then after you see people come and work for 6 months or 9 months or whatever and end result was like, nothing was much done. You know, so the feeling is like, you know, there’s a lot of under table going on, you know, the like money is spent, you know, but not a lot of work is done, you know, that kind of a thing. So that gives a feeling like this is really another world, you know that kind of a thing. INTERVIEWER: So things were run differently. JACK: Ya, I would say, I would say something like that. INTERVIEWER: Were there special events that you kind of, was there something that stood out for you during your time at the railway station? JACK: I think for one thing was always before Chinese New Year when a lot of people would actually have to travel back to Malaysia by train. I don’t know why it was so popular then. Maybe cars and buses were not as popular then, but train seems to be a very popular thing and before Chinese New Year when the ticketing is opened for the Chinese New Year period, the queue would be fantastic. The queue for tickets would go out of the ticketing office, out onto the surrounding of the building and goes one round, you know, and so it’s like a big big queue of people trying to buy tickets to go back to Malaysia, you know. So it’s a yearly event. Before Chinese New Year you will find all the fantastic queues happening to buy tickets, you know. INTERVIEWER: I can imagine, imagine all noise that day and buzz. JACK: And because they have a certain system of like, they start selling tickets like maybe one week before the, you don’t, you know you cannot say I want to buy the ticket for next year you know that kind of thing. So when the tickets come out for sale, that’s when you see that kind of a queue. INTERVIEWER: You have to go and queue up? JACK: We don’t really, you know, take the train so much, you know. So, but we see the queue building up all over the place you know, you know that kind of a thing. INTERVIEWER: And that’s for Chinese New Year? JACK: Ya. INTERVIEWER: Was there, was there like, was there any other special like during Hari Raya or would there be something similar? JACK: No, Hari Raya not so much but Chinese New Year it was always the main event because my office was just across, my office is on the arrival platform. The departure platform is across the track, which is maybe 10 m or you know, across from this platform to the other platform and you can see the people trying to queue up to go into their train when on the day, you know, of their departure and you can see them bringing a lot of things because they are bringing food back or gifts back or whatever that kind of thing. And there’s always a lot of items that are dutiable, you know, so you always see a lot of, a lot of under table going on because people are bringing things that and they have to give some money to the customs so that they can bring their goods in that kind of thing. So from where we see, we always see, you know, it really came to a place where it’s no joke you can see the customs uniform, you know. And but that’s the way of life there as it is. People don’t want the hassle of being stopped with things they want to bring in and all that so they just give a bit of money to the customs and they go up the train. INTERVIEWER: Wow, I’m sure that helps speed up the process as well. JACK: Ya,ya, ya, obviously. So I don’t know if it’s all kosher for this kind of thing to be mentioned in oral history. The Malaysian Government might take offense, you know. INTERVIEWER: Well, let them to handle that.