Part II: Mr Stanley Tan Say Tong

INTERVIEWER: But what do you hope that the building will, can be? STANLEY: Once the, once the building has lost its purpose right, it’s like an empty shell you see. So even if they convert to, let’s say next time, café, maybe the surrounding will be condos or what or new development but the whole building is still there, so the purpose is not there anymore. It’s just a reminder for the, for the younger generation. INTERVIEWER: So in a way it’s, you feel that it has lost its soul? STANLEY: Yes, like the Tanjong Pagar. INTERVIEWER: But then like for the beauty of the building itself, do you think it’s, it’s worth, like to develop into something else or to keep it as a say, museum, or something like that? STANLEY: Of course they will keep it. Like the Tanjong Pagar station, it’s a national monument right, so probably next time the new development there will incorporate into the old building. So it’s just part of the development. Then they will, it’s just like the GPO, General Post Office, Fullerton, something like that. INTERVIEWER: So you hope that it will be converted into a hotel, museum or a… STANLEY: Most likely they will do that. I have no say to that. INTERVIEWER: Oh no, now we are asking for your… STANLEY: For my opinion, is it? INTERVIEWER: Yah. STANLEY: Hotel would be good. INTERVIEWER: Hotel? STANLEY: Obviously, it’s not going to be a museum. They had enough museums. Then it won’t be a museum out of nowhere. INTERVIEWER: So why do you think that a hotel would be good? STANLEY: Because at least it can retain its original look just like the Fullerton. If you use it for other things, you will need a lot of manuals to the building structure. So you will lost the original look. INTERVIEWER: So for you, as in, retaining the, the, even like the look of the building itself is still very important even though the function of it has been, is gone? STANLEY: Yes, it’s very important. INTERVIEWER: So even the railway line itself, the rail corridor, do you think it’s important to actually keep like the nature there? STANLEY: Yes, because of the railway, then there’s the nature. INTERVIEWER: Yah. STANLEY: So they should keep it but although not the whole line, you see, because development have to go through some parts, so probably try to keep more of it. INTERVIEWER: What do you think it can be used for, like the rail? STANLEY: Actually nothing much because it’s only how wide? Two metres, 1.5? So just use it for recreation. People, currently people are already cycling along the track, so probably if they want they can make it into a cycling track and then in the middle of the parts, they can like have some kiosks, some huts for people to rest, then continue. INTERVIEWER: So actually, when you talk about the railway, is there anything else that you like to mention that you feel that it’s something that you feel really close to your heart like the railway? STANLEY: There’s nothing much to say. You know because it’s already gone, you see. INTERVIEWER: No because it’s already gone, is there something else that you really like to, like the future generation to know and remember about? STANLEY: No, they can only go through photos or storylines because they cannot really take train anymore. They can’t even see it, so actually there’s nothing much to be done. INTERVIEWER: Okay, can. Thank you. STANLEY: Oh, you never take train before right? INTERVIEWER: How different is the railway, the stretch of railway in Singapore from other parts of Malaysia? STANLEY: The stretch here is still original. It has five level crossings and the original token system is still used here until JB. JB has been modernised. So Singapore stretch is one of the last system to be still the British system still used. INTERVIEWER: So actually the rest of Malaysia has been, the system has been modernszed? STANLEY: Yes, in fact they are doing the double tracking, so no need to wait for another train to pass by. It’s just like MRT, it’s just one north bound and one south bound, except the west coast-east coast line. East coast line they said it’s like a jungle railway, a lot of kampongs there. So I used to travel on it, three days two nights. It’s, it’s quite fun with all the members because Japan Railway has given KTM some of their old coaches but it’s still very new so because of the size, the different gauge, the train cannot come into Singapore. You can only start in JB, so have to board the train in JB. INTERVIEWER: So actually you have to change, it’s actually a different track altogether? STANLEY: No, it’s the same. They change the bogie. INTERVIEWER: Oh, okay. STANLEY: Actually the Japan gauge is bigger so they just change the bogie. INTERVIEWER: So, so usually people would change into another train when they get to JB or… STANLEY: Don’t have to. From Singapore it’s direct train because the track will split into two. One is Gemas, one is to KL side and then one is to east coast. So it depends which train you are taking. INTERVIEWER: So if they want to take like that Japan train, then most likely they have, they have to… STANLEY: Yah, suppose the train will start in Singapore but because of the size, some of the old bridges, Singapore bridges, they cannot pass through, they did a test, so no choice they have to start in JB. INTERVIEWER: Interesting. STANLEY: So from JB you go all the way up. INTERVIEWER: So actually experience here was supposed to be like a more original colonial kind of a railway system? STANLEY: It is, you see, a lot of tourists they like to take the Eastern and Oriental Express, so because they like the colonial style and the “Asian”… INTERVIEWER: Asian in inverted commas? STANLEY: Asian with all the coconut trees, they like all these. INTERVIEWER: So in a way, that was a tourist attraction as well. STANLEY: Yes, but to us it’s normal coconut trees but they like it because it’s like going back to the ‘60s or the ‘40s. So the Eastern and, E&O Express train is from, actually from Singapore, KL to Bangkok. INTERVIEWER: So it’s link to Bangkok as well? STANLEY: Yes, all the way up to Bangkok. It’s a few K [thousand] per head. It’s a luxury train. INTERVIEWER: Have you ever tried that before? STANLEY: No, because not really, I mean it’s just like a hotel, a mobile hotel. INTERVIEWER: Mobile hotel. STANLEY: In fact the people inside they wear, they wear spats. You cannot even see shorts inside. INTERVIEWER: Wear suits and stuff like that? STANLEY: Yah. So Singapore stretch is still the, one of the best because Malaysia side, once after JB right, all the scenery will be similar, all the trains all these. But Singapore stretch is the stretch attract inside the city, which is still original, no development so you can still see your surrounding. INTERVIEWER: Then, as in, just now you mentioned about how when you go to, go to Malaysia the scenery is like almost the same, what kind of scenery is that? STANLEY: Scenery as in many small stations, it stop there and then after that it will be jungle, then small station, jungle, then until a major station. So it’s quite typical, typical scene. INTERVIEWER: So how is the scene here different? As in like do you see the city from the train or…? STANLEY: Because once you board in Tanjong Pagar, you will see the skyscrapers in CBD and then the train will go up all the way to Bukit Merah. It runs parallel with AYE, then you see all the HDB there. After Bukit Merah, you will pass by Alexandra Hospital. After Alexandra Hospital, it will be Tanglin Halt. Tanglin Halt used to be a station, used to have a small station. In fact the structure is still there. The platforms everything also there, so after that you see Buona Vista MRT, and then you go all the way up. After Holland Road, it’s more of like a bit of jungle, then you reach Bukit Timah station. So from Bukit Timah you still see all the developments, all the new condos and the, you can even see Yew Tee. From there, it would be a bit of factory and then you reach Woodlands. INTERVIEWER: So just now you mentioned about the Tanglin Halt foundation is still there, the station foundation is still there. Like did you actually go there and…? STANLEY: Yah, I have been there for a few times. There used, because last time Singapore is part of Malaysia so actually all along there’s a station like Tanjong Pagar, Tanglin Halt, and then Bukit Timah, and then Woodlands. Woodlands there’s no station. So train would just stop at every halt or station. INTERVIEWER: So it’s pretty similar to like the way it is in Malaysia where it stops at many small towns. STANLEY: So after that they, after the Separation I think they stopped the Tanglin Halt station. In fact the, this is the revised railway line. The original passed through Orchard, do you know? The original alignment, track alignment, it passed through Orchard. It’s the, the location is at Centrepoint, towards opposite which is the car park. Last time, used to be open car park beside Specialist Centre. The bridge is over there. I think many years ago I read one news. When constructing the MRT for, for this Somerset station, they found the foundation for the bridge compartment because they were digging so actually the foundation is still there. INTERVIEWER: I mean of course now they have already removed it. STANLEY: Yah, from, because from there, last time Dunearn Road, in fact Dunearn Road and Bukit Timah Road is separated by a canal right. Dunearn Road used to be railway. INTERVIEWER: Yah, correct. STANLEY: From Bukit Timah, then it turns down to Dunearn Road, all the way down, down to Orchard, and then to Tank Road station. Tank Road station was the original terminal, before the Tanjong Pagar station. This one I think everybody knows, provided they read history. INTERVIEWER: Is there any other lines you know of besides the main track? STANLEY: Other than the main line, the main branch line is the Jurong line, which was opened in 1965 but due to the Separation, it was not fully in use. So other than the Jurong line is the main industrial line. There are also other side like the ABC Brickwork, there’s one branch cut through Jalan Bukit Merah. The branch is just behind IKEA. Actually the track, the track bed was still there few years ago. It was recently that they convert into a car park because it was returned to SLA. Before that it’s still under KTM so they cannot touch this stretch, so that is a industrial branch also because along the whole stretch of Alexandra Road, there used to be a lot of factories, so the track will branch off from the, to the right hand side towards Jalan Bukit Merah. Because from Tanjong Pagar, it will run parallel with Jalan Bukit Merah and then it will, from there it will branch, it will have a branch, industrial towards the Alexandra industrial area. INTERVIEWER: So the train mainly served the Alexandra industrial area? STANLEY: Yes. It was until the early ‘80s then they stopped. INTERVIEWER: Did you actually, did you manage to go down and see for yourself? STANLEY: No, I was too young. So but I managed to, while, because I used to take photo during my lunch time. I worked in Jalan Bukit Merah. So every day I have a quick lunch and then there’s a 1pm express train. So after my lunch, I would go over because as they construct AYE, AYE also runs parallel with the KTM track but it’s the other side. Jalan Bukit Merah, KTM and then AYE so they built three overhead pedestrian crossings bridge, so I will go to either one and wait for the 1pm train almost every day unless it rains. So from there sometimes, I walked to the old branch. You can still see the sleepers, some nails are still there. So there’s another, after the train goes up, before Buona Vista, there is a military line. INTERVIEWER: Oh, military line? STANLEY: That was used by the British army. The military line is linked to the main line so actually the line runs to the Biopolis, Biopolis near the Buona Vista there. INTERVIEWER: Yah. STANLEY: So actually, the track bed is still there, it’s still… INTERVIEWER: Till today? STANLEY: Yes. There’s a school, something don’t know what Trust, around the Portsdown Road. The track would cut through Portsdown Road towards the camp. INTERVIEWER: So the one is actually the, it served the British during and before the war? STANLEY: Yes. After the war. INTERVIEWER: After the war they still use it? STANLEY: Yes, used to transport all the vehicles all these. They have their own locomotives. INTERVIEWER: Is there any other side lines like besides the military and Alexandra? STANLEY: After Bukit Panjang level crossing, there is a older side line, cuts all the way to the camp. So some of, some of them they photo one track across the drain, the old track, I think that’s the original but right now the camp has been flattened at the Choa Chu Kang that side. Everything’s gone. That is the last one. Before that, before the track goes to Woodlands, there is another one, just a siding for some oil tank, three to four oil tank before the train reach Woodlands. INTERVIEWER: The, what were the oil tanks for? STANLEY: Those big oil tanks like the, it’s for mainly the tank wagon to transfer all the oils, to park it’s side, at the siding. INTERVIEWER: As in the, who did the, the, these oil tank serve? STANLEY: Oils for the industry area. INTERVIEWER: Oh, industry area as well. STANLEY: In fact, before you reach the Causeway, the left hand side you see are all the Malay kampongs before the reclaim for the new Singapore Customs. All the Malay house they are built on the mangrove swamp. Once high tide or low tide, they are along the sea side. INTERVIEWER: On stilts? STANLEY: Yah, but no choice because the left hand side of the track they have to reclaim the whole area so everything have to go. That was before, that was before ‘90s. INTERVIEWER: So when last time you used to travel along that track, do you actually managed to see any Malay kampongs along the two sides, along the left side? STANLEY: There’s a, in fact there’s a squatter just after the Tanjong Pagar railway yard, beside the depress of the track. INTERVIEWER: Now or… STANLEY: There is a huge squatter. INTERVIEWER: Now or in the past? STANLEY: In the past. You cannot find any squatters now. In fact I have the newspaper cutting. Yah, so one interesting one is from Tanjong Pagar station, there’s one branch towards Singapore port. That means from the yard, the yard used to be at the left hand side, but because of the construction of AYE, the yard was shift to the current location. The original location, they have a branch cut across level crossing towards across Keppel Road, towards the habour. So trains will have to go to the habour. It was during the ‘60s and the ‘70s. INTERVIEWER: Have you ever visited or walked through the Clementi-Jurong line and did you see anything special there? STANLEY: Yes, in fact from Bukit Timah, I walked to Jurong, I came across Jurong station, it’s not really a station. It’s a, it’s a hut where there’s a three sidings and a wagon’s parking there and the wagons doesn’t seem to be in use for quite some time, so I think occasionally trains will come and pick up something because from there, there’s a few branch to the Jurong Port. So Jurong station is actually a hut, a small hut. INTERVIEWER: So when, when did you actually walk along the track and when did you see this hut? STANLEY: I walked in 1990. INTERVIEWER: 1990. STANLEY: From Bukit Timah station, it branched off under, it branched off to the right if you are going south and under Clementi Road under a tunnel and then it will pass Sunset Avenue on a bridge and after that the long bridge, the 3-span bridge and pass by Clementi at Faber Heights and the stretch where two rows of terrace house behind and then it will pass another bridge towards Teban Gardens. Before Teban Gardens it will come across the, used to be a roundabout on top, so it’s a long tunnel to Teban Garden and then it will come to a Penjuru Road level crossing. After Penjuru Road, it will go and then it will have a small level crossing for the PUB substation which is no longer there and it run, from there it run parallel with Jalan Ahmad Ibrahim. It wasn’t an expressway at that time. It was a normal road and there’s a railway bridge. From there it will reach Jurong hut or Jurong station. They still have a big sign with a “Jurong” there. I have photos of that so from there it will pass by another river and another level crossing so there’s three, there’s another two branch off from the Jurong side and then it ends at the Jurong Port so Jurong station is a, is a real find because you don’t, I didn’t expect it to have a station there. So it’s a, for the workers there to control the sidings. INTERVIEWER: So when, when you were there, were there anyone, did you see anyone else or like besides the wagons, anything else? STANLEY: No, at that time I was still a student so I didn’t see anybody. I just go around and take photo. INTERVIEWER: Was it, how was the atmosphere like? STANLEY: It was hidden, it was hidden by the bush so actually you cannot really, you cannot really see from the main Jalan Ahmad Ibrahim Road because at that time, the bus terminal was still there. Bus terminal was still there before the Boon Lay, so it was around the junction of Jalan Ibrahim, Jalan Ahmad Ibrahim and Jurong Pier Road. INTERVIEWER: Jurong Pier Road. So when, when you, the bandwagons you saw there, like roughly how big was it? STANLEY: Those are actually maintenance wagons. INTERVIEWER: Oh, maintenance wagons. STANLEY: It’s not really a goods wagon. INTERVIEWER: Oh, okay. Then did you actually see any train along the Clementi-Jurong line before? STANLEY: Yes. When I was at the Jurong station, I was surprised to see a Class 24 locomotive with a brake van. I think the train went to one of the siding to pick up something because it’s not a long train. In fact there’s no, there’s no wagon. It’s only a brake van and a loco so I don’t know they are there for what and then from what I see, the track hasn’t been used for a long time. So when the train passed by the level crossing at the branch, all the dust, all the dirt has been squeezed out of the track. INTERVIEWER: So actually you were very lucky to see like the… STANLEY: Yes and I’m very happy. I never expect to see a train there. INTERVIEWER: The train is a, did you know whether the train, as in it was there because, as in, does it belong to KTM? STANLEY: Yes, because that’s the only main line and then during that time 1990, the locomotive was two zero, it was class 24. Class 24 was purchased in 1987 so actually it’s quite a 3, it’s a new locomotive, 3-year old locomotive. That’s why I was surprised why they let a 3-year old locomotive run on this branch line instead of using an old one. INTERVIEWER: Yah. STANLEY: Anyway I, I, I never expect, I just took two photos only because during that time it’s film. I only have the 36-roll, 36-roll film roll so I must save. It’s not like nowadays, digital. INTERVIEWER: Maybe you would like to tell me more about the Clementi-Jurong line that you know of? STANLEY: From Jurong station? INTERVIEWER: From the, maybe say from the firstt tunnel that you meet, underneath. STANLEY: First tunnel is under Clementi Road and then it will go all the way. The second tunnel is actually at Teban Gardens. It is the long, one of the longest because of, it used to be a roundabout, now it’s a bridge. So from there the third one is at the other junction, which is near the Jurong Pier Road. That’s the last tunnel, so total there’s three tunnels. INTERVIEWER: Were there any landmarks near the last tunnel? STANLEY: In fact on the tunnel itself they constructed a bridge on top, something like a cable-stayed design bridge. That’s the last tunnel. In fact, you can actually see the track alignment from Jurong Hill because along the track alignment, it’s full of trees. So from that stretch of trees you can tell the line, where the line is. INTERVIEWER: That’s interesting.