Part III : Mr Jack Ho

JACK: Ya, and the guy who was running the toilet, you know, collecting initially 5 cents, 10 cents, oh ya talking about that, previously the toilets were maintained by the owners of the building, by KTM. Right, so as tenants, we all have a special key, you know, to go into the cubicles, you know. Each cubicle, solid wooden doors has got a very nice lock, you know, with a very special key that we open and without this you got to put 10 cents or something like that in to open the door for the cubicle, you know, so, so but because we were tenants there we had this key, you know, it was always very interesting that we didn't have to pay to use the cubicle and we can unlock and all that, you know. But of course, it was always very dirty and very whatever. But interesting thing I remember as a kid was that when you go to the toilet, the door is wooden and a lot of people would carve things there. So you get all kinds of graffiti, you know, especially you know people would draw naked woman, people would draw call this number if you want this sexual service or whatever that kind of thing. It was like, as a kid it was always something very interesting because when you go into the cubicle and close the door and you start wow, like reading all the things behind the door, you know. But that was what it was, you know. INTERVIEWER: So it's like a billboard? JACK: Ya, it was and, and, and the people who do all these drawings there and all that very creative, you know, pretty good actually, I would say. INTERVIEWER: But when did it happen like you said before that was, oh no, but anyone could use the stalls except that you guys had the special key. JACK: Ya for the cubicle and then later they decided that they are just going to, to tender out the toilet cleaning and all that to someone who is allowed to collect money, you know, so you pay your 10 cents and you go into your toilet outside and then this guy would be the one, what you call, maintaining the toilet, you know, which was good, but the funny thing is that during that so call big renovation that would cost a few million dollars, the one who got the contract was the guy who rent the toilet, so you can imagine you know, what sort of, he was not a contractor, he was a guy rubbing the toilet but he got the contract for the whole renovation job. INTERVIEWER: Fascinating. JACK: And like I said, after the renovation it didn't look as good honestly. It didn't look as good. They actually dig out on the platform cable tassels, you know, to be put into under the platform because previously every cable was all exposed, you know, whether it's electrical cables, telephone cables or whatever, everything is exposed. So you can see it running out of your office, running by the side of the walls and go in everything, and they, and in that renovation they were supposed to beautify all these things. Cables were supposed to go under the passes and all that, so they actually dig out trenches, put metal cable trays underneath and all that, you know, and certain points that you can open and put your cables and all that. But after everything was done, they cover everything back already right, not a single cable was laid inside. The cables were all still running outside so it's like, like what I was saying, you know, it's just like you don't expect that in many buildings in Singapore but that's what happened in that building, you know, they will do things like kind of like wow, they are going to spend to beautify, you know, but at the end of the day it became worse, you know, because you can still see the cement mark of where they covered back the trench that thing, then you see long trench of that kind of mark but actually there was no improvement, you know, the cables never gone underneath. It was still on top, you know, and that's the kind of thing at the station, and really the corruption was normal. Corruption was something we, we had to deal with when you are running the business there. INTERVIEWER: I think that has to be an aspect of a different world. JACK: Ya, ya, because that was our livelihood there, you know. At that point when, you know the Free Trade Zones was where a lot of things was dutiable, I was saying right, in Malaysia. So when you bring things to the Free Trade Zone, it is non-dutiable right, because you go into the Free Trade Zone. But you need to seal it in a wagon and the wagon can only be opened when it reached the Free Trade Zone to open and the customs will check and ensure that this is the quantity that was shipped and all that, you know, and that was before bonded trucks came into the picture, where they seal the trucks and move in. So before bonded truck came into picture, everyone had no choice but to use wagons, you know, and the train service. So it was a good time for us because no one had any other way of transporting things into the Free Trade Zone except by rail, and because it was a good thing for us, but at the same time the customs there gave us a lot of, because they expect a lot of things, you know. So you are going to ship a, you know, a wagon of say washing machines, you know, and the customs will just tell you, okay send one to my house, you know that kind of a thing. And you have to do that because if not your, they will do all kinds of things to delay your shipment and whatever, you know, and they have the right to do it, they say they are checking or whatever, you know that kind of thing and so it became like if you don't do what they want you to do, you can't do business there at speed and then you have competitors, you know, and your competitors are doing at that speed and you are every time just, your goods come to you and you get slowed down because you refuse, you know, so I say it became a way of life there for us. INTERVIEWER: This is so fascinating. What do you think of the, you know, of all that right, what do you think of the train station as it is now? JACK: Now that it's closed up, every time I walk, I drive pass I still look at it with memories obviously and, and it's sad thing honestly. I, I understand that it is a prime land, you know, so it was long time in coming, because before I even went there to run the business, for many many years they were already saying that they were negotiating to return that land back to Singapore government and move the train station farther up to the Causeway area or Woodlands area and really this talk, I'm sure you can even Google and check how long this has been going on. For so many years, every time when they say they came to an agreement, something went wrong again when the time comes to deliver, you know. So until when I was running the business the same talk was always there all the time, oh we're going to give up the business, they are going to give it back to government and government is going to build new buildings there, you know and this and that, but it never happened for longest time until when I was long gone then it actually happened, you know, that they took over. But even then, now they have not torn down the building yet, right? I don't know. INTERVIEWER: I think that's a lot of talks to what it may be. But I mean with you being so involved with the building, I mean, what are your thoughts? How would you like to see it, you know, with regard to development of the train station? JACK: If you ask me, I would like see it as a, like a Fullerton Hotel, you know, because Fullerton was the General Post Office right, you know, and they maintained the whole building but they just converted everything beautiful and classy inside, but they maintained that grandness of that. And actually railway station has got a certain grandness about the architecture, you know, it would have been, it would be good if they can do something like that, you know. Like I was just saying, I would think my opinion would be to keep the building and, and to do it the way they did it with Fullerton Hotel, you know, and then whatever you do inside, whether you want to make it into a hotel or you want to make it into a whatever, you can, you know. I think our government is able to do it with the, you know, I think finance should not be a problem, you know, and whatever, I'm quite sure whatever we choose to do would be really nice, you know. So it would be fantastic to keep it. It would be very sad if they tear it apart, you know, tear the whole thing down, it would be very sad. INTERVIEWER: And, what do you, I mean also beyond the railway station, you have walked the tracks right. How do you think, what would you like to see happen to the track. It's a very unique piece of land because it kind of varies in width but it's this narrow strip of land that. JACK: Okay, I don't have any sentiments for the tracks. I think as track goes wherever, whichever Mukim lot hasn't happen to be near, I think the government should consider selling it to the, you know. I mean the tracks go such a long distance all the way up and it passes through so many different types of properties right. In some cases it's behind landed properties behind the Faber area, you know, and in some cases it's just public land, you know, nothing, you know, in some cases it's behind HDB blocks, you know, so you ask me, well if they want to keep a corridor at a certain area of maintaining a memory of the tracks, maybe one nice corridor, like you know choose a nice corridor but I think no point to maintain the whole length all the way to, to Woodlands you know. INTERVIEWER: Because there was a lot of kind of communities involved, like you said right, because it went through so many different kinds of communities. When you were walking through right, was it just from the station back home? Did you even venture farther? JACK: No. INTERVIEWER: And were there communities involved like, you know, in the station? JACK: Ya, of course. There were those old kampong houses around by the sides. There were people who planting their vegetable garden, you know, along the sides and this and that. It was very old, old time we are talking about 1960s, you know, and my dad passed away in 1960s so those times, you know, and those were really Singapore how many years back you know. INTERVIEWER: So you, essentially you like start, so even pre-Independence you were already, your parents were already there at this stage? JACK: Yes, yes. INTERVIEWER: Wow that must have been quite a development through those years right. JACK: But we, I won't know because I don't understand all those things then right? INTERVIEWER: Sure, sure. JACK: You know, you know, and so we just grew up in the space, you know, not knowing the politics of it, you know. INTERVIEWER: Then, I mean through the ’70s there would have been a lot of development as well, I guess, when you were growing up? JACK: There were. As I said, there's always the bit of process of beautifying the place in bits and pieces but I have never seen one time when after each process, it became better. To me, it always became worse. Ya, really, it just, you know, I guess it's a matter of budget, and it's a matter of which contractor you award it to and how did the deal go through and what were, you know, what were the tender documentation like, you know, I have no idea. But I seem to think that if they spent 5,000,000, then maybe actually less than 1,000,000 went into the actual work, you know. INTERVIEWER: Okay. So just curious, were you there just before they closed the station? Did you go visit again or walk the tracks? JACK: No, no, I didn't. When I knew that it was closing and all that, no, I, before it closed I still go back there once in a while because my ex-partners were still there, still running the transport business there, and I still go there to have my meals sometimes the Bombay Restaurant, and you know the young man that was serving me is now an old man, you know. So I have also grown older also myself, you know, so you see that familiar faces and they will still recognise. It's amazing thing, you know, even though I don't go back there for 10 years, I go back there, they will still know when I order my food I want this chicken I want that prawn, you know that kind of thing, you know, so it is that, that kind of a thing. I went back there because, like I said, to visit my old partners there and all that, but when they announced the going to close I didn't go back because I have been still been going back here and there, you know, it's not like, you know. So no, but architecture wise, I hope they keep it. INTERVIEWER: Yup, okay, okay. Thank you, Jack. JACK: Sure, welcome. INTERVIEWER: I appreciate it. Thanks very much.